Help Spread The Word and Digg This Letter
Andy's Note: Since I wrote my expose on cheating in Gears of War last week, I've been getting emails from cheaters and victims of cheating. Recently, I was contacted by a member of the official Gears of War forums who told me that there was an incredible portion of the online community who were, at Epic's request, posting comments and suggestions for what needed to be improved.
Strangely though, Epic employees and/or forum moderators were going through and deleting comments regarding the multiplayer lobby situation. I have been linked to numerous closed threads that discuss the problem, and it really does appear that Epic has decided it doesn't want to deal with it and is hoping it will just go away eventually. I have contacted Epic's VP, Mark Rein, for comment on several stories over the past week, and when he's responded, I've been directed to this post which, unfortunately, does nothing to address the fans' most significant concern.
What follows is a letter to Epic, written by the community, that was posted and then deleted from the forums. GamerAndy.com thinks these problems are very real and that a company like Epic Games has a responsibility to its fans and supporters to at least listen. I'm posting it on the front page of GA in its entirety, and I strongly encourage webmasters and bloggers out there to help us spread the word in an effort to convince Epic Games to fix their "broken Gears."
Dear Epic Games,
Emergence Day has recently passed and already fans are raving about Gears of War. Besides being the second most pre-ordered title of all time, Gears has gone on to become the number one most played Xbox 360 title on Xbox Live within the first week of its release. Of course, this success did not come as surprise to many. Epic, Microsoft, and nearly everyone connected to the gaming community has known for a very long time that Gears of War was going to be the "next big thing."
Gears of War stood up and delivered on essentially every level by meeting or exceeding the over-the-top hype it had been receiving for many, many months prior to its release. Once again, this did not come as a shock to many people. Epic has provided the gaming community with a longstanding lineup of excellent games in the loosely defined "shooter" genre, including the popular Unreal Tournament series. This success is the result of Epic's outstanding development team, the dedicated support it has shown to its fans, and its desire to utilize fan-inspired feedback to make improvements on existing and future products.
It is precisely that anticipated level of support that has sparked this letter to the Gears of War development team, and it is hoped this will be taken to heart, as it comes from those dedicated fans who have spent their hard earned money on the game. On November 13, 2006, Mark Rein made a promise to fans regarding Epic's desire to continue to provide support for Gears by stating, "We're going to support Gears of War and we're going to make improvements and enhancements for it." In the same post on the official Epic Games forums, he sent a request out to fans everywhere asking for fan-inspired feedback and indicated such feedback would be considered for future post-release support. As Rein said, Epic wants to hear feedback and will do its "best to keep you happy playing Gears of War for years to come!"
As requested, the fans have provided much feedback to Epi through the appropriate channels in the Epic Games forums, however, a large and growing number of fans have become concerned with the response (or lack thereof) regarding what appears to be the single largest complaint with Gears of War: The multiplayer lobby system.
Few people who have picked the game up and given the multiplayer variants a chance have had anything negative to say about the gameplay because, let's face it, the multiplayer gameplay is simply outstanding. As with everything else in Gears, the well balanced team-driven gameplay is everything it was promised to be and more. But what about actually getting into those ranked or unranked games with your friends? That aspect of the game has proven worse than a disappointment for fans everywhere. The multiplayer possibilities are made even more disappointing given the amazing detail Epic has applied to multiplayer game variants in previous games and the attention it paid to previous fans' feedback. The seemingly partially finished lobby system of Gears of War can be described as nothing short of "broken."
As many gamers who have played other longstanding, successful multiplayer titles for the Xbox or Xbox 360 know, one of the most important aspects of multiplayer gaming, perhaps second only to the actual gameplay, is the lobby system used to find, create, and/or join games. In this regard, Gears of War has been a serious letdown to many fans. Disregarding fan input since long before the game was released, moderators on the Epic forums have made it a policy to take whatever action is necessary to put down any discussion relating to a party-based lobby system (similar in feel to Halo 2's Optimatch Matchmaking).
Before delving further into this issue it is important to understand exactly what fans have been asking for. A party-based lobby system would be one that allows players to form a group with like-minded teammates (up to three, typically those on their friends list), allow them to set criteria for desired match settings, and then allow Gears of War to utilize Microsoft's TrueSkill ranking system (or a similar system) to match those players against a team consisting of approximately the same overall skill level. Such a system would take all of the guesswork and frustration out of hunting for a game. Furthermore, such a system would capture the essence of Gears of War by promoting team play and having fun with your friends.
Forum threads regarding party-based lobby discussions have been closed for reasons ranging from realistic to laughably silly since this issue first arose months before the game's release. Certainly the vast volume of threads begging for party-based multiplayer features should have been a sign to developers that the inadequate server-listing system being implemented was going to be a huge concern for Epic's fans. Nevertheless, despite logical opposition, the game was released without the desired lobby-system support or any comment from anyone at Epic as to what possible future changes might be expected. Of course, this issue when first raised was just a request from fans and may have been what Epic intended the game to be. Sadly, no one can be certain because feedback from developers is still forthcoming.
Whether the opinion of dedicated fans is important enough to elicit a response from Epic is a decision the developers are free to make, but let there be no question about how fans feel. In a poll posted on the official Epic Games forum entitled "Party System or Not," which began on November 13, 2006, a stunning 97 percent of the nearly 300 fans who responded were very much in favor of a party-based lobby system and a large number of those felt the current lobby system was woefully inadequate or a complete letdown. In what must have been shocking to senior of members of the forums, an incredible number of fans who previously had no desire to post a response did so for the first and only time to comment on this issue and provide feedback in the form of disgust for the current lobby system. Sadly, that poll and others similar to it were closed by Mark Rein; sometimes with no explanation other than he felt initial comments regarding his understanding of fan feelings on this subject may have been "misrepresented". During courteous consideration of fan feedback, the closing of one such thread was accompanied by Rein's comment, "No need to start another one like this."
We know exactly what the fans want and we know our requests and pleas for an improved party-based lobby system have been heard. We know that no one at Epic wants us to discuss this issue further. Furthermore, we know from example that if we continue to press this issue we will have our threads closed, be issued warning points, and possibly end up banned from the Epic Games forums. What we do not know is why everyone at Epic is avoiding this issue. Have you remained silent because you have made a decision to disregard any possibility of improving the current lobby system, or are you unsure as to how your company will proceed given the obvious majority of fan disappointment in this area? More importantly, why is it that you have done everything in your power to avoid making a direct response? Make no mistake; this is not a new issue. Your fans have been asking about this for many months and, in direct opposition to everything they have come to expect from Epic Games, you have failed to provide anything resembling an "official" comment.
Forget for a moment the current lobby system allows for ranked games with friends (in direct opposition to what was told to fans prior to the game's release and despite using Microsoft TrueSkill as a scapegoat). Forget the fact that players exploit the intended use of the server list, thus causing stacked servers for the purposes of winning, leaderboard boosting, or both. Also forget the fact gamers are often plagued with connection failures. While we are at it, forget the fact that once a game has been hosted, the host has no control over any of the game options at all. In fact, forget all of the problems with the current lobby system. But please do not forget playing on a team with friends (unranked player matches) in the current lobby system is the most frustrating aspect of the current lobby system. One way to play on team of friends is by hosting a game, inviting friends, and waiting (usually longer than 20 minutes) for the other slots to be populated by random players. Frustrating. Another equally frustrating option is to find a suitable match, try to quickly invite friends before the game fills up, and then convince everyone in the game to adjust teams so the friends can play together.
Epic, we love Gears of War. More specifically, we love the multiplayer. It kicks ass on so many levels that we want to be playing for years to come. We are devoted fans and could not be happier to see the success you have already achieved in the few short post-release weeks. Unfortunately we have been let down by the current multiplayer lobby system, which does not do your fans or this excellent game justice. The lack of any official response on your behalf is insulting. True fans will stand behind you regardless of your position, but you owe us a response. Gears of War is a game that requires teamwork above all else, and that is what people love about it. Sadly, the current lobby system serves only to punish those players who try to play on a team with their friends. That system combined with reluctance on the part of the design team to respond to fan feedback is uncharacteristic of a company like you, considering all you have done in the past. Please understand our concerns and afford us the dignity of a response.
Sincerely,
Nice letter.
It would be nice to have some interviews with some of these people at Epic or at Microsoft whoever is holding this back. Its a damned shame really.
wow...and I agree with all of it
From the last paragraph -
"Sadly, the current lobby system serves only to punish those players who try to play on a team with their friends."
What? If anything, the current lobby system mostly doles out punishment on folks who join a game on their own and end up playing against three or four friends. Simple answer - take the host name off of the match list.
Another beef is matches with non-headset folks. I understand that some people don't like to talk, broke their headset, etc... but in a team-based strategic online battle it makes a huge difference whether or not you can actually communicate with teammates. Four people (who've just met) of varying skill levels can do a ton of damage if they can all talk.
I fully support the push for allowing clan-style matches in the future, but there's also got to be a workable option to get into matches with random folks as well.
This game rocks hard, but it could be "turned to eleven" with just a few tweaks. C'mon Epic (and MS).
Very nice letter. Everything was well thought out and written grammatically correct and professional.
I was one of the first guys Perm banned and then later IP banned from discussing this issue on their forums.
I hope they respond to this.
- Vapor
Outstanding letter.
Epic has to make some changes... HAS TO... why? Because people will leave to go back to Halo 2 in no time. Gears of War is only beating halo 2 right now because it's new, but watch halo 2 come back and surpass it in a few months.
Very well crafted letter - articulate and intelligent. Hopefully, this will raise some eyebrows over at Epic.
I REALLY REALLY hope that Epic does something about the rampant cheeting and the lack of skill level matching I am tired of being beaten 10 matches in a row or more and not being able (or anyone else on my team) to get a kill... its always 1 side heavily stacked against the other, and that just is not right. It has really made me consider getting rid of my xbox live subscription, that's how bad things are.
A very well thought out letter. You can represent the gaming community as a whole anytime, as far as I'm concerned, Andy. Your points are good and your arguments back them up well. I would be very disappointed not to see a response from Epic.
TLDR
They have already announced fixes to many of the multiplayer problems. Go to teamxbox.com to read up on it. How can you think a company like this would be completely disregarding a multiplayer issue when they have been making amazing mutliplayer games for so long... yeah it sucks it wasn't released with it already fixed, this will all be a big waste of time when the updates released.
speu:
Actually, the only thing they've said they're working on is the connectivity issues people are having.... Epic has declined to comment entirely when it comes to the broken matchmaking/ranked system.
Which, in case you didn't read the letter, is what we're concerned about.
I just came to this link to see how to cheat in gears of war. Whats up with that? No cheats? No exploits? Comon!
i recommend u post this at microsoft as well, they had big part in gow and if the community does what it did at epic forums at microsoft forums might get thier attention and pressure epic.
Good letter.
However, I think the "Connection Lost to Host" issue can be attributed to lobbies filling up quickly.
I've been using these steps to get around it:
1) Select Join Ranked/Player Match
2) Select Join Custom Match
3) While list is refreshing, press X until you see a list of rooms
4) Select a room with 4 or less players in it.
Doing the above I NEVER get the "Connection Lost to Host" message because I'm selecting rooms that are not filled up. So, sounds like a mislabeled error message IMHO.
1.Release patch that will not allow games to start unless both teams have equal amounts of players or everyone has hit ready b4 host starts. I've been in 4vs2s cause of cheating hosts.
2. Add a lil more punch to the pistol. Maybe not as important as anything else though.
3. put same restrictions on grenade taggers as you do chainsaw using players. Grenade tagging players run straight through bullets sometimes starting from 20 feet away if if they had no other weapons.
4. When you lose connection as a result of full mp game your taken to start screen. Why not just leave us at the mp page we were at b4?
5.please fix erratic weapon damage behavior. On some days a shotgun will blow a player up at cose range, at other times it will barely graze them.
Besides these Gears online is great. I will look forward to playing nothing else all year lol.
I've been one of these people that posted about this before the game was released.
In one Post Joe Graph (Epic Developer) said he code code a party system, but then the game wouldn't ship. http://forums.epicgames.com/showpost.php?p=24635674&postcount=60
Well I knew that was wrong and I went to the Saints Row Fourms (has a party system) and asked a volation developer about if their party system was illegal. He responded that it wasn't and they didn't cut any corners with MS to get the party system in the game. http://forums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=552904&highlight=Shamrock
When I linked that thread that the Volation developer commented in, it was eventually locked. I took that as a bad sign because it seemed at that point Epic wasn't intrested in the truth and had no intention of fixing anything.
Epic caused a lot of trouble with this ranked setup when Joe Graph commented Party systems were illegal. Now people think the bad online setup is MS fault, but in reality it is Epics. Major Nelson, Volation Devs, Bungie Dev's, and the creater of True Rank have all posted that Party's are perfectly with in the rules if done correctly. Epic has deleted every single one of those posts. The creater of true rank acctually wrote a full page article about party systems in his blog. When that was posted on Epic fourms it wasn't locked, it was compeletely removed.
Hmm. It seems to me that if Epic keeps not addressing these problems they might not even have people playing the game next year.
Why haven't they commented yet? Is it because they have decided to do nothing and don't want to say that? Is it that they don't know what they're going to do to fix it yet? Or is it actually because the cost to do the work is too expensive for their management's tastes for a free download and they're planning on rolling it in to the sequel?
For the folks who say 'just borrow Halo 2's system': it's not the same code base. It's not a simple drag and drop procedure.
Andy you perfectly illustrated how I feel and my friends do. Thank you for being such an advocate.
Nice work.
It surprises me that people are saying, or almost threatening, to not play Gears of War. I don't see how this is any skin off Epics back. I mean, they obviously don't like being told, "You're game rocks, but the online is horribly broken," but people have already given Epic their money.
Given the option to buy Gears of War 2 I doubt even 10% of the Gears community would pass even if Epic never responded to this.
I understand that it's going more than a bit far to lock/delete comments and further remove and IP ban forum goers, but in Epics defense when is enough, enough? I mean, they obviously know the community wants change.
I just can't help but feeling like this is a lot of internet drama.
Why don't you give EPIC a break. Good god the game as only been out for two weeks. Maybe after working nonstop for the last two or three years that just want to go on vacation for a week or two. EPIC has always listened to the community about their games. No reason to think that has changed.
If you want to play with friends just start up an unranked game.
Bungie has set the bar very high for Epic. Let's hope that they respond to these problems as quick as Bungie did for Halo.
Great article! Just last night I had three of my friends with me and it took us more than 45 minutes to actually get in a decent game where all of us were on the same team. That is frustrating to say the least! Trueskill is there for a reason. Why don't developers use it?
Agreed. Epic, your response...?
you guys are geeks..im sorry i stumbled into this room
Excellent letter which raises some very valid points. The matchmaking system is rubbish and as soon as you lose a round your team always seems to quit. I would prefer to know the people on my team because I know they won't quit.
My advice as a technical writer and as someone working in the corporate world: if it doesn't contain an executive summary then no one that makes the decisions (that need to be made for this kind of overhaul) is going to read it. Keep that to two, maybe three paragraph maximum. Also, trim out some of the emotion and flattery and state plainly they will loose precious ground when the next FPS or TPS comes along with similar game play and an outstanding lobby system. Good luck in your efforts!
What about the 'disc unreadable' errors? Lots of people (like myself) are running into that issue unfortunately :(
That is a very stupid letter. I'm sorry, but your main argument is fundamentally flawed. So the lobby system is busted. Agreed. What are Epic going to do to fix it? Work on it. They know its busted, they are fixing it now. What are 1,000 more posts on their foums about the same thing going to do? Make their lives harder, and make the patch take longer. Seriously, it is sheer stupidity to suggest that Epic deleting the same old threads means they don't care or aren't listening. What do you want? Magically appearing patches. Just be thankful for what we have. It will be fixed in good time.
Microsoft won't let people use a ranked party system anymore. Saints Row was the last. It's not Epic's fault. Do your homework before you start ranting and raving.
TO be honest you spend 75 dollars SE Ed. on a game it should be perfect. If it is not perfect then it should be corrected immediately, they new of the glitches don't they have beta testers? Epic is not the only developer either its all of them, which leads me to EA and their shitty antics will someone please investigate them or just ban them from the gaming environment because they stink.
I agree 100%. It's amazing and bizarre that one of the best ever shooters has one of the worst ever ranked match system.
I also agree with the person that said Halo 2 will be back on top before long. The reason will be because of the lobby system rather than how the game actually plays.
Good god, get a life.
Gears of War is an amazing game, it's only been out a couple weeks,
give them a chance.
To those of you who think that Epic did their matchmaking because of Microsoft's trueskill requirements, I'd direct your attention to the following excerpt from an interview with Bungie yesterday (about halo 3 matchmaking)
1UP: Recent Xbox Live games have made it difficult to party with your friends for ranked games, the reasons have been cited as Microsoft's certification and True Skill system. Will players be able to enter ranked games as a party in Halo 3?
Allen Murray, Producer: Of course! Core features from Halo 2 such as the Party System will remain intact and are being improved upon. You will most definitely be able to create a party with your friends and enter into ranked matchmaking -- that's where the fun is! The Xbox certification process and True Skill system do not prevent games from having a feature that allows parties of friends to enter into ranked matchmaking as a team -- but they also do not provide that feature as part of the core set of matchmaking services. This system is something that Bungie has built into our game that is uniquely ours and a key ingredient in our special sauce.
full interview here:
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3155452
I'm posting about this now, just didn't want it to get lost in the shuffle.
Nice letter... What I'd really like to see is some all-on-all action where respawns are also possible, first to a certain number of kills, like Halo but with the chainsaw :D
my advice to darth geordie, a technical writer, is to skip the spell check and brush up on your vocabulary. Lose precious ground is probably what you meant, right?
Sorry about the last comment. Darth Geordie makes some good points from an organizational communication standpoint. I just have a thing about spelling.
Ummm... That letter was freaking stupid. They'll patch the game. If you don't like a game don't pay for it. It doesn't have a party system... wah... I was suprised to. deal.
Just cause you buy a plane ticket doesn't mean you get to tell the pilot how to fly.
Mark Rein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oO Saga Oo _ View Post
Why do you delete and close threads for no apparent reason?
We do not close threads for no reason.
Quote:
You tell us you want our feedback but everytime we give it in overwhelming information you delete it.
There is no need to clog the forum with the same information over and over. We're quite capable of digesting it the first time.
Quote:
"Party System or Not" thread, this is a complete outrage. Over 97% of these people on this site want a party system and you closed it.
There's no need to beat a dead horse. We're well aware this is a highly requested feature. We were smart enough to make the game so do you really think we need another 500 posts, or 5 more threads, to figure that a bunch of people would like this feature? I didn't think so either. I probably should have explained that when I closed the thread. I realize my answer was a little ambiguous. Sorry about that.
Taken from thread on epic:
http://gearsforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=557409
Wow, while your letter has some worthwhile points, I and I suspect the people at Epic found your letter incredibly verbose and in need of some serious editing. It pained me to finish it because it was so long.
I applaud your effort but use the KISS rule next time.
OK, so I got here because I have two early twenty year olds in the next room wanting to find out how to play split screen online. Something about that they can see player1 and player2 and those players are evidently smirking at them when they ask how.
Having done my share of board posting, I realize that I am probably on the wrong board, but a little help please
Enjoy
Besides cheating the neverending quest for gamerscore causes GS Whores to use certain weapons (say a pistol) just to get kills. I ran into this yesterday when a player refused to use anyhting but a pistol putting our team down one more man (one of our players had left). For exapmle in one case it was him aganist 2 of the enemies (everyone else was dead) and he had a huge advantage. He couldve come up behind one a killed him with the chainsaw, melee or shotgun but no he decided to take him on with the pistol getting brutally raped from the recieving end of a boomshot which cost us the game. When i play ranked i want to actually play, player matchs are wherre i fuck around.
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